phlavor
Apr 19, 01:35 PM
I just hope that the SSD option is more affordable. For me the top chip on the 27inch is a no-brainer but the SSD turns a $2200 computer into a $2950 computer. Hell, in San Francisco I have to tack 9.5% tax on that too.
Unspeaked
Sep 1, 01:56 PM
i don't think this rumor will come out to be true because this might take a lot of people from getting Mac Pro, unless this iMac comes out to be north of $2500, at which point nobody will buy this.
Yeah, wouldn't that be terrible if Apple lost sales to - Apple!!!
Come on, people who need a Mac Pro are going to buy a Mac Pro.
People who need an iMac will buy an iMac.
The small overlap between these users isn't enough to justify or kill off a product. It's still going to be a duo (not quad), lack PCI, lack the number of RAM slots, etc, etc.
They're different markets.
Yeah, wouldn't that be terrible if Apple lost sales to - Apple!!!
Come on, people who need a Mac Pro are going to buy a Mac Pro.
People who need an iMac will buy an iMac.
The small overlap between these users isn't enough to justify or kill off a product. It's still going to be a duo (not quad), lack PCI, lack the number of RAM slots, etc, etc.
They're different markets.
lordonuthin
Mar 23, 09:22 PM
Haha. I wanted the 2.66 octo but couldn't justify the price jump (and still somehow managed to justify the quad-to-octo jump, but that's another story). Of course my times tend to deviate, during the days it's just under 33 minutes but now and then a bit of Aperture work comes in and needs CPU attention.
I haven't noticed that bigadv units do not restart. Mine seem to restart just fine the few times I've shut FahCore down, continuing from the same frame. Does it affect the points awarded or so? Good thing I can usually bunch in the updates, last time it was a few software updates and a third HDD :rolleyes:
I wanted the top octo but couldn't justify it :D I had never had anything but the lowest Powermacs (G3 & G5) or, cough, Performa, so I splurged.
The bigadv units NEVER restart on my machine :mad: it only affects the points to the extent that I'm restarting from zero and not where I was at oh say 90 percent or something. I will work on consolidation as soon as I have my Victory Vegas (http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/2010/Pages/Find-Your-Model.aspx) with new paint back together :p:p it's an 04 with silver goldish paint and a 1500 cc engine :cool:
I haven't noticed that bigadv units do not restart. Mine seem to restart just fine the few times I've shut FahCore down, continuing from the same frame. Does it affect the points awarded or so? Good thing I can usually bunch in the updates, last time it was a few software updates and a third HDD :rolleyes:
I wanted the top octo but couldn't justify it :D I had never had anything but the lowest Powermacs (G3 & G5) or, cough, Performa, so I splurged.
The bigadv units NEVER restart on my machine :mad: it only affects the points to the extent that I'm restarting from zero and not where I was at oh say 90 percent or something. I will work on consolidation as soon as I have my Victory Vegas (http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/2010/Pages/Find-Your-Model.aspx) with new paint back together :p:p it's an 04 with silver goldish paint and a 1500 cc engine :cool:
skunk
Mar 20, 01:39 PM
The mushroom is just a by-product of the explosion. Most explosions form a small mushroom like that - usually, they dissipate quickly though.I assume the mushroom is from the initial warhead explosion, and the rest is the resultant exploding ammunition.
Lord Blackadder
Feb 23, 12:44 PM
It's funny because neither GM nor Ford in Europe use their own Diesel engines, instead GM use Fiat engines and Ford use a Peugeot-Citroen engine.
Wonder if this will be the case in this? Chevy in Europe is a very cheap and nasty brand of car, much like Kia (they are re-branded Daewoo's).
The current Cruze is a "world car", but if you plow through the marketing jibberish it appears that the car was engineered mostly by Daewoo with help from Opel. It's being built in Russia, China, South Korea and the USA (Ohio).
The diesel is an Italian (VM Motori) design, and on paper the numbers are pretty good: 150hp and 240 ft-lbs from a 2.0L I4. It's a common rail direct injection turbosiesel.
IMO European manufacturers have had much longer to perfect the technology (i.e. Common Rail Injected Diesel) so GM are up against it here.
The beauty of this move for GM is that the car is already being built in this configuration everywhere except in the US, so minimal design work needs to be done - all that is required is to get the diesel federalized (made US emissions-legal), and that will probably only involve a few small modifications.
So when will automakers sell a compact pickup with a 2 liter diesel in the US? I want a diesel pick up. But I don't want a behemoth that requires a ladder to enter and hogs 2/3 of a 2 car garage.:p
I prefer diesel in a work truck for three reasons: torque, torque and torque.
We almost got such a truck (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08/taj-mahauler-we-drive-the-mahindra-diesel-pik-up.html), but the whole project fizzled (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/report-mahindra-diesel-pickup-truck-launch-in-us-indefinitely-delayed.html).
I don't see any similar vehicle coming to the US soon. For now, if you want a small diesel pickup you either have to buy an old 1970s-1980s Japanese pickup (a few were made as diesels) or do-it-yourself (http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/toyotadiesel/).
Wonder if this will be the case in this? Chevy in Europe is a very cheap and nasty brand of car, much like Kia (they are re-branded Daewoo's).
The current Cruze is a "world car", but if you plow through the marketing jibberish it appears that the car was engineered mostly by Daewoo with help from Opel. It's being built in Russia, China, South Korea and the USA (Ohio).
The diesel is an Italian (VM Motori) design, and on paper the numbers are pretty good: 150hp and 240 ft-lbs from a 2.0L I4. It's a common rail direct injection turbosiesel.
IMO European manufacturers have had much longer to perfect the technology (i.e. Common Rail Injected Diesel) so GM are up against it here.
The beauty of this move for GM is that the car is already being built in this configuration everywhere except in the US, so minimal design work needs to be done - all that is required is to get the diesel federalized (made US emissions-legal), and that will probably only involve a few small modifications.
So when will automakers sell a compact pickup with a 2 liter diesel in the US? I want a diesel pick up. But I don't want a behemoth that requires a ladder to enter and hogs 2/3 of a 2 car garage.:p
I prefer diesel in a work truck for three reasons: torque, torque and torque.
We almost got such a truck (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08/taj-mahauler-we-drive-the-mahindra-diesel-pik-up.html), but the whole project fizzled (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/10/report-mahindra-diesel-pickup-truck-launch-in-us-indefinitely-delayed.html).
I don't see any similar vehicle coming to the US soon. For now, if you want a small diesel pickup you either have to buy an old 1970s-1980s Japanese pickup (a few were made as diesels) or do-it-yourself (http://vpizza.org/~jmeehan/toyotadiesel/).
ezekielrage_99
Aug 31, 01:02 AM
I can see that dropping the Core Solo happening because for a little extra you can get a Core Duo.
bushido
Apr 2, 10:34 AM
command + forward slash ;)
THANK YOU!
---
safari got some fixes to it seems, scrolling works smoother and doesn't get stuck on pages with lots of pics or vids and the error with not being able to type anything unless u close safari seems to be fixed as well.
THANK YOU!
---
safari got some fixes to it seems, scrolling works smoother and doesn't get stuck on pages with lots of pics or vids and the error with not being able to type anything unless u close safari seems to be fixed as well.
peharri
Jan 5, 03:14 PM
Well, I ended up having to build a small time machine to find out what would be announced. Wasn't difficult, except that Objective C is a PITA. Anyway, here's the log cut and pasted from engadget.com
(Note, order of lines is in chronological order, for obvious reasons)
8.55am Hall is close to full. Lot of excited murmmering, lights still on. REM tracks playing, audience is mostly annoyed.
9.01 "Losing my religion"
9.03 lights dim, Jobs takes to the stage
9.05 Welcome everyone, great year for Apple, iPod Hifi, Intel switch
9.10 More on the way, better products, great year ahead for Apple
9.25 30 Years of Apple, 30 great more years. Achievements include Apple I, Apple II, Apple IIe, (listing each product)
9.45 Time to talk about what's next. May have heard a rumour about a phone. (Audience laughter)
9.47 iPod Phone. It's a headset. Plugs into iPod. Excellent sound quality.
9.50 Also handsfree kit for a cellphone. Bluetooth or 2.5mm jack.
9.55 Just to re-interate, as people on IRC feed seem to think otherwise, iPod Phone is a handsfree kit. So you don't have to take off your headphones when answering phone. It's not a cellphone. Audience seems troubled by this.
9.57 Integrates with iChat Video too, using Bluetooth feature. Now having chat with Bill Gates over iChat.
9.58 Range: 10-20 feet (extension cables available, for wired connections). "Works with all carriers"
10.05 "So that's iPod Phone", $299 for basic version (iPod nano), $499 for version for iPod. Now, iTV.
10.10 New name "iMac mini"
10.12 Comes with keyboard and mouse. Wireless available.
10.15 View content downloaded from iTunes. Simple configuration to see shared music libraries.
10.17 Still demonstrating configuration options.
10.25 Several Apple engineers are now on stage showing Steve how to point the iMac mini at Phil's iTunes library.
10.28 Music is now being downloaded. Shared content is automatically downloaded into local storage to avoid network stutters. iMac mini is not available for use during download. Entire library is downloaded each time.
10.30 "On to the next thing", 3% of library downloaded. "Leopard". "This one changes its spots"
10.35 Significant changes underneath.
10.40 My. Word. Steve Jobs has just demonstrated the superiority of ZFS over other file systems. You have to see that to be believed. Take a look at the stream when it's posted. I mean, it was unreal. I've never seen such a clear technical explanation that was so obvious and compelling about a file system before.
10.45 Clapping abates for a few seconds, but then continues.
10.47 Apple employees are out with fire extinguishers, hosing audience to try to get them to quiet down so that Jobs can continue the presentation.
10.50 One last thing.
10.52 Mac in a Windows world. Impossible to run Windows applications without emulation.
10.55 Microsoft's dominance. Monoculture. Technical superiority of Windows. (?) BTW Phil's library is now 25% transferred to the iMac mini.
10.59 Poor performance of XNU. BSD "1970s" operating system. Darwin served its purpose.
11.00 Dave Cutler, designer of Windows NT/2000/XP/Vista has just come on stage.
11.05 New kernel for Mac OS X. Mac OS X high level subsystems built upon Windows. New operating system. "Mac OS W". Leopard is Mac OS W 11.0.
11.07 Jobs is now talking to Bill Gates on the big screen again.
11.08 "Best of Apple, Best of Microsoft, everything will 'just work' from now on"
11.10 On a personal note. Steve Jobs "Best years of my life at Apple"
11.12 Excited to be named CEO of Disney previous day, amazing new opportunities, but running two major companies difficult. (Bill Gates is still on screen, he's part of the conversation)
11.15 Successor at Apple needed to be picked, someone with experience, knowledge about how to succeed in a difficult market, perhaps changing Apple to be the #1 and not the #2
11.16 Bill Gates, whose departure from Microsoft was announced last year, to take the helm of Apple later this year. "I couldn't be more excited. Apple is a great company, and we're going to make some great products".
11.20 The start of another great year at Apple, thanks for coming.
11.22 Lights are back on, people are leaving conference hall.
(Note, order of lines is in chronological order, for obvious reasons)
8.55am Hall is close to full. Lot of excited murmmering, lights still on. REM tracks playing, audience is mostly annoyed.
9.01 "Losing my religion"
9.03 lights dim, Jobs takes to the stage
9.05 Welcome everyone, great year for Apple, iPod Hifi, Intel switch
9.10 More on the way, better products, great year ahead for Apple
9.25 30 Years of Apple, 30 great more years. Achievements include Apple I, Apple II, Apple IIe, (listing each product)
9.45 Time to talk about what's next. May have heard a rumour about a phone. (Audience laughter)
9.47 iPod Phone. It's a headset. Plugs into iPod. Excellent sound quality.
9.50 Also handsfree kit for a cellphone. Bluetooth or 2.5mm jack.
9.55 Just to re-interate, as people on IRC feed seem to think otherwise, iPod Phone is a handsfree kit. So you don't have to take off your headphones when answering phone. It's not a cellphone. Audience seems troubled by this.
9.57 Integrates with iChat Video too, using Bluetooth feature. Now having chat with Bill Gates over iChat.
9.58 Range: 10-20 feet (extension cables available, for wired connections). "Works with all carriers"
10.05 "So that's iPod Phone", $299 for basic version (iPod nano), $499 for version for iPod. Now, iTV.
10.10 New name "iMac mini"
10.12 Comes with keyboard and mouse. Wireless available.
10.15 View content downloaded from iTunes. Simple configuration to see shared music libraries.
10.17 Still demonstrating configuration options.
10.25 Several Apple engineers are now on stage showing Steve how to point the iMac mini at Phil's iTunes library.
10.28 Music is now being downloaded. Shared content is automatically downloaded into local storage to avoid network stutters. iMac mini is not available for use during download. Entire library is downloaded each time.
10.30 "On to the next thing", 3% of library downloaded. "Leopard". "This one changes its spots"
10.35 Significant changes underneath.
10.40 My. Word. Steve Jobs has just demonstrated the superiority of ZFS over other file systems. You have to see that to be believed. Take a look at the stream when it's posted. I mean, it was unreal. I've never seen such a clear technical explanation that was so obvious and compelling about a file system before.
10.45 Clapping abates for a few seconds, but then continues.
10.47 Apple employees are out with fire extinguishers, hosing audience to try to get them to quiet down so that Jobs can continue the presentation.
10.50 One last thing.
10.52 Mac in a Windows world. Impossible to run Windows applications without emulation.
10.55 Microsoft's dominance. Monoculture. Technical superiority of Windows. (?) BTW Phil's library is now 25% transferred to the iMac mini.
10.59 Poor performance of XNU. BSD "1970s" operating system. Darwin served its purpose.
11.00 Dave Cutler, designer of Windows NT/2000/XP/Vista has just come on stage.
11.05 New kernel for Mac OS X. Mac OS X high level subsystems built upon Windows. New operating system. "Mac OS W". Leopard is Mac OS W 11.0.
11.07 Jobs is now talking to Bill Gates on the big screen again.
11.08 "Best of Apple, Best of Microsoft, everything will 'just work' from now on"
11.10 On a personal note. Steve Jobs "Best years of my life at Apple"
11.12 Excited to be named CEO of Disney previous day, amazing new opportunities, but running two major companies difficult. (Bill Gates is still on screen, he's part of the conversation)
11.15 Successor at Apple needed to be picked, someone with experience, knowledge about how to succeed in a difficult market, perhaps changing Apple to be the #1 and not the #2
11.16 Bill Gates, whose departure from Microsoft was announced last year, to take the helm of Apple later this year. "I couldn't be more excited. Apple is a great company, and we're going to make some great products".
11.20 The start of another great year at Apple, thanks for coming.
11.22 Lights are back on, people are leaving conference hall.

danielwsmithee
Nov 27, 02:57 PM
Ding-Ding-Ding! You answered all of your above complaints and whining about Apple's prices. You aren't the target audience for their displays.While I agree with your thought process behind your post that Apple is targeting a different audience. That target audience is dwindling very quickly as Apple's prices increase in comparison to the rest of the market.
lyzardking
May 2, 06:17 PM
dang, 3 mac pros!
are you running bigadv units on all 3? or do you use them for something other folding? (i assume you do) and if you don't mind me asking, how do they do if you use them while folding?
well it seems something might be going on with your username for some reason. you might want to make a thread over at the folding forums about it - maybe they can help
they're all used for DTP (AI, AP, QE, etc)
the older one (at home) needs to be paused anytime I need to do anything processor intensive (not the issue with the 09s) especially HB and the like.
The 08 wont make deadlines with the bidadv units (not after pausing it for hours at a time LOL) unfortunately, I am unable to select the number of processors it will use (like I use to <4>) so now I have to pause it.
It looks like people are aware of the user name issues over in the "F@H Widget needs testing" thread
LK
are you running bigadv units on all 3? or do you use them for something other folding? (i assume you do) and if you don't mind me asking, how do they do if you use them while folding?
well it seems something might be going on with your username for some reason. you might want to make a thread over at the folding forums about it - maybe they can help
they're all used for DTP (AI, AP, QE, etc)
the older one (at home) needs to be paused anytime I need to do anything processor intensive (not the issue with the 09s) especially HB and the like.
The 08 wont make deadlines with the bidadv units (not after pausing it for hours at a time LOL) unfortunately, I am unable to select the number of processors it will use (like I use to <4>) so now I have to pause it.
It looks like people are aware of the user name issues over in the "F@H Widget needs testing" thread
LK
AFPoster
Mar 22, 01:13 PM
The only choice these friends of yours made was to try and fit in with straight culture.
They were always gay. They chose to be straight� and that never works out.
Colour me sceptic.
Back and forth with emails confessing they chose to be gay? Oh come on.
FYI, I made a choice about my career� tonight's dinner, my brand of underwear� I did not choose to be gay. No more than you made a choice to be (I assume) straight. Or� did you� which brings me back to your gay/straight switching friends. Perhaps time to do some more emailing? Talk things over with them? No need to be so deep in that dark closet.
If they chose to be straight and that didn't work out that's beyond me. I am not gay so I can't understand the situation since being straight is considered "normal" in this society.
I don't agree that this is right, whether my comments may seem to differ from that, I believe Gays deserve all = rights as straights receive, including marriage and joint income returns + names on the home deed.
I can ask my friends all sorts of questions, but I don't think it will do any good since they gave there answers already.
They were always gay. They chose to be straight� and that never works out.
Colour me sceptic.
Back and forth with emails confessing they chose to be gay? Oh come on.
FYI, I made a choice about my career� tonight's dinner, my brand of underwear� I did not choose to be gay. No more than you made a choice to be (I assume) straight. Or� did you� which brings me back to your gay/straight switching friends. Perhaps time to do some more emailing? Talk things over with them? No need to be so deep in that dark closet.
If they chose to be straight and that didn't work out that's beyond me. I am not gay so I can't understand the situation since being straight is considered "normal" in this society.
I don't agree that this is right, whether my comments may seem to differ from that, I believe Gays deserve all = rights as straights receive, including marriage and joint income returns + names on the home deed.
I can ask my friends all sorts of questions, but I don't think it will do any good since they gave there answers already.
twoodcc
May 1, 07:42 PM
one 08 MP 2.8 dual quad
two 09 MP 2.26 dual quads
I finally got inCrease to push my key to F@H, although it looks like one (one of the newer PMs) isn't getting the bonus... I'll have to check when I get back.
I could never get the Console one to work right....
I just saw that my user name is/was being listed multiple times, I wonder if that has anything to do with it (I thought I wasn't getting any points from the console)
????
dang, 3 mac pros!
are you running bigadv units on all 3? or do you use them for something other folding? (i assume you do) and if you don't mind me asking, how do they do if you use them while folding?
well it seems something might be going on with your username for some reason. you might want to make a thread over at the folding forums about it - maybe they can help
two 09 MP 2.26 dual quads
I finally got inCrease to push my key to F@H, although it looks like one (one of the newer PMs) isn't getting the bonus... I'll have to check when I get back.
I could never get the Console one to work right....
I just saw that my user name is/was being listed multiple times, I wonder if that has anything to do with it (I thought I wasn't getting any points from the console)
????
dang, 3 mac pros!
are you running bigadv units on all 3? or do you use them for something other folding? (i assume you do) and if you don't mind me asking, how do they do if you use them while folding?
well it seems something might be going on with your username for some reason. you might want to make a thread over at the folding forums about it - maybe they can help
bursthead
Mar 25, 04:09 PM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/e75a/
Joystick for ipad
Joystick for ipad
Kashchei
Aug 27, 06:01 PM
the new intel integrated graphics isn't ready, is it? So these will be merom minis with a GMA 950?
This is the $64K question. Does anyone know when the X3000 is due to be released?
This is the $64K question. Does anyone know when the X3000 is due to be released?
skinniezinho
Nov 27, 07:38 AM
Where did you buy that watch and for how much? I really like it :o
I bought it on a friend's store@45eur but it is available @50eur on almost every watch store.
Check it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtSP6Qj8PDk).
I bought it on a friend's store@45eur but it is available @50eur on almost every watch store.
Check it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtSP6Qj8PDk).

TangoCharlie
Aug 30, 03:50 AM
Those speeds line up exactly with the T5000 series of Merom.
Intel T2400 Core Duo Yonah 1.83GHz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2400
Intel T2300 Core Duo Yonah 1.66Ghz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2300
Looks like the CPU speeds match onto Yonah parts too :rolleyes:
Intel T2400 Core Duo Yonah 1.83GHz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2400
Intel T2300 Core Duo Yonah 1.66Ghz 667MHz 2MB, Retail, BX80539T2300
Looks like the CPU speeds match onto Yonah parts too :rolleyes:

kadajawi
Sep 6, 02:38 PM
I should add though, I'm glad there is an option in the mini line not to have a DVD writer, if it saves a few euros. I've had 3 Macs with them and have burnt a total of 2 DVDs, a complete waste of money.
Oh well, I've burnt so many DVDs on my PC (have I?) that my writer seems to be at the end of its life. Ouch :(
On a side note... at least with standard sized drives there is barely any price difference between combo and dvd writer... I guess Apple is really having a nice profit on the superdrives...
Oh well, I've burnt so many DVDs on my PC (have I?) that my writer seems to be at the end of its life. Ouch :(
On a side note... at least with standard sized drives there is barely any price difference between combo and dvd writer... I guess Apple is really having a nice profit on the superdrives...
jakeacc
Mar 25, 03:56 PM
And just like that, Apple has snuck itself into the living room game console biz.

aurin
Jan 13, 05:25 PM
The MacBook Air
Is Vaporware:p
[QUOTE=thinkband;4744434]Actually, I think 'Macbook Air' has a ring to it.
Is Vaporware:p
[QUOTE=thinkband;4744434]Actually, I think 'Macbook Air' has a ring to it.
legacyb4
Aug 29, 11:49 AM
Agreed. They need to get that bottom end of the price range covered so that there are options for everyone including students.
I think Apple is more concerned with price for the Mac Mini than speed. Make them just a little bit faster than they are now, but much cheaper.
They're too expensive in the line-up now, with merom they would stay the same price but with Yonah they can make them cheaper again.
I think Apple is more concerned with price for the Mac Mini than speed. Make them just a little bit faster than they are now, but much cheaper.
They're too expensive in the line-up now, with merom they would stay the same price but with Yonah they can make them cheaper again.
Bubba Satori
Apr 2, 09:24 PM
your kidding right?
You're.
You're.
Evangelion
Aug 30, 02:30 AM
Who says Intel will keep selling Yonahs for long time once Merom comes out?
Link (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808&p=2). In short: "You'll note that Intel is quite aggressive with ramping Core 2 Duo up, but going into 2007 over a quarter of Intel's mobile processor shipments will still be Core Duo. "
Link (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808&p=2). In short: "You'll note that Intel is quite aggressive with ramping Core 2 Duo up, but going into 2007 over a quarter of Intel's mobile processor shipments will still be Core Duo. "
mdntcallr
Sep 6, 09:06 AM
cmon apple. get a clue.
these little mini's are nice but not great. there is a real void in your product lineup.
we need something with like a intel conroe chip, larger case, the ability to put in a better graphics card, and the basics like more ram, bigger hard drive and stuff.
give us a bigger mid sized tower type computer.
we all don't want to buy something with a screen. nor do we want some tiny puny non-upgradeable thing like the mac mini.
give us better options.
these little mini's are nice but not great. there is a real void in your product lineup.
we need something with like a intel conroe chip, larger case, the ability to put in a better graphics card, and the basics like more ram, bigger hard drive and stuff.
give us a bigger mid sized tower type computer.
we all don't want to buy something with a screen. nor do we want some tiny puny non-upgradeable thing like the mac mini.
give us better options.
ZilogZ80
Apr 11, 06:54 AM
Manual (stick) shift cars are rare today and I'm wondering how many people still know how to drive them. How did you learn and do you have a desire to own one?
What a wonderfully US-centric view you have there. :)
In the UK if you pass your test in an automatic then you are only allowed to drive automatics. I've never met anyone who has done this (there must be a few out there though!)
What a wonderfully US-centric view you have there. :)
In the UK if you pass your test in an automatic then you are only allowed to drive automatics. I've never met anyone who has done this (there must be a few out there though!)
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